Hey Carre, thanks for sharing this. It seems like your real-life career is thriving, even if it's on a smaller scale—that is so, so precious!Re: this article—on one hand, I feel you and respect your perspective. You are describing one of the biggest pain points for artists in the streaming era. But on the other hand, I struggle to understand how you keep feeding the corporations that treat your music and precious craft like s*it. Why accept this reality as is?
If you're concerned about labels, real labels know you can buy streams and likes. They know that having tens of thousands of streams and followers doesn't mean real people will actually attend your concerts and buy tickets. The payouts on these platforms are so ridiculous that I don't think any good, reputable label sees them as real income anyway. My advice? Concentrate on real life. Over time, it will be worth it. It’s a marathon.
I actually wrote a long piece about this topic. I would love to hear your thoughts on it!
Gave up on them just as I did social media. I put the music where it counts YouTube and even talk about it, and what I'm writing, singles, EP, etc. Right now my songs are at 0 listeners. First time in about 12 years I've seen this.
"But, in a cruel irony, the more my fans consciously choose to support me in real life versus streaming, the more invisible I become in the industry’s eyes."
I think about this all the time, as I see younger* fans competing over which of their faves has the most Spotify streams. I've caught myself feeling *guilty* for the fact my offline listening didn't contributing to their monthly streaming numbers an artist needed to stay relevant and on label, even though I'd bought the dang album. But you can't allow yourself to obsess over showing support like that or it's a slippery slope into the wasteful "fan labour" of K-idol stans leaivng their laptop streaming music videos 24/7 while they sleep, and the consequent creep on that side of pop to shorter and shorter lengths of songs to rack up the maximum streams per day...
*and I'm not that old - young millenial coming up in an era where iTunes was the norm and everyone bought music with their pocket money (while torrenting and ripping CDs from the library on the side). Now I have a lot of friends who simply won't listen to music that's not on Spotify and would be confused about what to do with a free download.
"But, in a cruel irony, the more my fans consciously choose to support me in real life versus streaming, the more invisible I become in the industry’s eyes."
I think about this all the time, as I see younger* fans competing over which of their faves has the most Spotify streams. I've caught myself feeling *guilty* for the fact my offline listening didn't contributing to their monthly streaming numbers an artist needed to stay relevant and on label, even though I'd bought the dang album. But you can't allow yourself to obsess over showing support like that or it's a slippery slope into the wasteful "fan labour" of K-idol stans leaivng their laptop streaming music videos 24/7 while they sleep, and the consequent creep on that side of pop to shorter and shorter lengths of songs to rack up the maximum streams per day...
*and I'm not that old - young millenial coming up in an era where iTunes was the norm and everyone bought music with their pocket money (while torrenting and ripping CDs from the library on the side). Now I have a lot of friends who simply won't listen to music that's not on Spotify and would be confused about what to do with a free download.
"But, in a cruel irony, the more my fans consciously choose to support me in real life versus streaming, the more invisible I become in the industry’s eyes."
I think about this all the time, as I see younger* fans competing over which of their faves has the most Spotify streams. I've caught myself feeling *guilty* for the fact my offline listening didn't contributing to their monthly streaming numbers an artist needed to stay relevant and on label, even though I'd bought the dang album. But you can't allow yourself to obsess over showing support like that or it's a slippery slope into the wasteful "fan labour" of K-idol stans leaivng their laptop streaming music videos 24/7 while they sleep, and the consequent creep on that side of pop to shorter and shorter lengths of songs to rack up the maximum streams per day...
*and I'm not that old - young millenial coming up in an era where iTunes was the norm and everyone bought music with their pocket money (while torrenting and ripping CDs from the library on the side). Now I have a lot of friends who simply won't listen to music that's not on Spotify and would be confused about what to do with a free download.
"But, in a cruel irony, the more my fans consciously choose to support me in real life versus streaming, the more invisible I become in the industry’s eyes."
I think about this all the time, as I see younger* fans competing over which of their faves has the most Spotify streams. I've caught myself feeling *guilty* for the fact my offline listening didn't contributing to their monthly streaming numbers an artist needed to stay relevant and on label, even though I'd bought the dang album. But you can't allow yourself to obsess over showing support like that or it's a slippery slope into the wasteful "fan labour" of K-idol stans leaivng their laptop streaming music videos 24/7 while they sleep, and the consequent creep on that side of pop to shorter and shorter lengths of songs to rack up the maximum streams per day...
*and I'm not that old - young millenial coming up in an era where iTunes was the norm and everyone bought music with their pocket money (while torrenting and ripping CDs from the library on the side). Now I have a lot of friends who simply won't listen to music that's not on Spotify and would be confused about what to do with a free download.
"But, in a cruel irony, the more my fans consciously choose to support me in real life versus streaming, the more invisible I become in the industry’s eyes."
I think about this all the time, as I see younger* fans competing over which of their faves has the most Spotify streams. I've caught myself feeling *guilty* for the fact my offline listening didn't contributing to their monthly streaming numbers an artist needed to stay relevant and on label, even though I'd bought the dang album. But you can't allow yourself to obsess over showing support like that or it's a slippery slope into the wasteful "fan labour" of K-idol stans leaivng their laptop streaming music videos 24/7 while they sleep, and the consequent creep on that side of pop to shorter and shorter lengths of songs to rack up the maximum streams per day...
*and I'm not that old - young millenial coming up in an era where iTunes was the norm and everyone bought music with their pocket money (while torrenting and ripping CDs from the library on the side). Now I have a lot of friends who simply won't listen to music that's not on Spotify and would be confused about what to do with a free download.
"But, in a cruel irony, the more my fans consciously choose to support me in real life versus streaming, the more invisible I become in the industry’s eyes."
I think about this all the time, as I see younger* fans competing over which of their faves has the most Spotify streams. I've caught myself feeling *guilty* for the fact my offline listening didn't contributing to their monthly streaming numbers an artist needed to stay relevant and on label, even though I'd bought the dang album. But you can't allow yourself to obsess over showing support like that or it's a slippery slope into the wasteful "fan labour" of K-idol stans leaivng their laptop streaming music videos 24/7 while they sleep, and the consequent creep on that side of pop to shorter and shorter lengths of songs to rack up the maximum streams per day...
*and I'm not that old - young millenial coming up in an era where iTunes was the norm and everyone bought music with their pocket money (while torrenting and ripping CDs from the library on the side). Now I have a lot of friends who simply won't listen to music that's not on Spotify and would be confused about what to do with a free download.
"But, in a cruel irony, the more my fans consciously choose to support me in real life versus streaming, the more invisible I become in the industry’s eyes."
I think about this all the time, as I see younger* fans competing over which of their faves has the most Spotify streams. I've caught myself feeling *guilty* for the fact my offline listening didn't contributing to their monthly streaming numbers an artist needed to stay relevant and on label, even though I'd bought the dang album. But you can't allow yourself to obsess over showing support like that or it's a slippery slope into the wasteful "fan labour" of K-idol stans leaivng their laptop streaming music videos 24/7 while they sleep, and the consequent creep on that side of pop to shorter and shorter lengths of songs to rack up the maximum streams per day...
*and I'm not that old - young millenial coming up in an era where iTunes was the norm and everyone bought music with their pocket money (while torrenting and ripping CDs from the library on the side). Now I have a lot of friends who simply won't listen to music that's not on Spotify and would be confused about what to do with a free download.
Hi! Thanks for reading. So, I understand leaving Spotify as an act of artistic rebellion. BUT, I don’t understand how it’s even an option as an artist. I don’t use it as a listener, but as an artist, I have never heard of a distribution deal that leaves Spotify out of the equation. Nor have I heard of a record deal contract that has worldwide distribution without including Spotify. Unless you’re a fully DIY artist or on Taylor Swift level, you don’t get to choose to opt out of Spotify. It sucks but that’s where we are right now in the world. Another reason why the middle class musician is going extinct.
This is the same wrongthink the social media echo chambers use to convince people they can't delete their FaceSpace accounts because "if you're not on [platform] you don't exist!" It's completely false.
Quitting Spotify isn't about "helping indie musicians" - but it doesn't hurt them either. That's like saying "Quitting Amazon Prime won't help small retailers!" It's a logical fallacy.
Don't give money to shitty platforms that prioritize greed over people. The end.
I've long believed that Spotify had burst the 'music fan' bubble and shown that most people actually just want background noise, and active music fans are a smaller group than we realised but I really liked your point that Spotify's passive programming is also impacting the active music fans that try to engage with it - like it's impossible to escape the passivity.
I spend a lot of time trying to walk musicians down the path of playing the industry / streaming game to show that even if they 'sell-out' and embrace the new normal AND they get lucky and blow up, they'll be stuck in the system that's more of a hamster wheel than a canvas.
It's more important than ever to define your own success and path as an artist. Once you're clear on what you value and where you want to go, you can correctly judge the offers, opportunities and Faustian bargains that come your way. If artists don't set their own agenda, someone (Spotify, A&R) will be setting it for you.
I agree with all you wrote. The thing is easily put this way: if you wanna play their game, you have to follow their rules. They, being the music industry major players. Could it be the problem musicians aiming to instant recognition? I believe the music we make, if it has “quality”, will find its way to the people that will enjoy it. It will take time, but it will happen.
Spotify is a niche. If you’re there, few people will know or find you there. If you’re not, well, some people will understand why…
I interviewed a band today and we got around to talking about Spotify and one of the guys said "I hold two thoughts. Spotify is fucking us while also helping us." Because people discover them on Spotify and then buy a ticket to their show and then buy a t-shirt or record that night.
I looked at Spotify's breakdown of the streams we've seen on our christmas-song. Funnily enough we had our highest amount of streams on January 21st, almost 1 month after we were done with christmas.
A total of 2028 streams, with a solid peak of 713 streams on said January 21st. Seems legit...
Hey Carre, thanks for sharing this. It seems like your real-life career is thriving, even if it's on a smaller scale—that is so, so precious!Re: this article—on one hand, I feel you and respect your perspective. You are describing one of the biggest pain points for artists in the streaming era. But on the other hand, I struggle to understand how you keep feeding the corporations that treat your music and precious craft like s*it. Why accept this reality as is?
If you're concerned about labels, real labels know you can buy streams and likes. They know that having tens of thousands of streams and followers doesn't mean real people will actually attend your concerts and buy tickets. The payouts on these platforms are so ridiculous that I don't think any good, reputable label sees them as real income anyway. My advice? Concentrate on real life. Over time, it will be worth it. It’s a marathon.
I actually wrote a long piece about this topic. I would love to hear your thoughts on it!
https://lendanear.substack.com/p/the-algorithm-is-changing-how-we
Cheers!
Gave up on them just as I did social media. I put the music where it counts YouTube and even talk about it, and what I'm writing, singles, EP, etc. Right now my songs are at 0 listeners. First time in about 12 years I've seen this.
"But, in a cruel irony, the more my fans consciously choose to support me in real life versus streaming, the more invisible I become in the industry’s eyes."
I think about this all the time, as I see younger* fans competing over which of their faves has the most Spotify streams. I've caught myself feeling *guilty* for the fact my offline listening didn't contributing to their monthly streaming numbers an artist needed to stay relevant and on label, even though I'd bought the dang album. But you can't allow yourself to obsess over showing support like that or it's a slippery slope into the wasteful "fan labour" of K-idol stans leaivng their laptop streaming music videos 24/7 while they sleep, and the consequent creep on that side of pop to shorter and shorter lengths of songs to rack up the maximum streams per day...
*and I'm not that old - young millenial coming up in an era where iTunes was the norm and everyone bought music with their pocket money (while torrenting and ripping CDs from the library on the side). Now I have a lot of friends who simply won't listen to music that's not on Spotify and would be confused about what to do with a free download.
"But, in a cruel irony, the more my fans consciously choose to support me in real life versus streaming, the more invisible I become in the industry’s eyes."
I think about this all the time, as I see younger* fans competing over which of their faves has the most Spotify streams. I've caught myself feeling *guilty* for the fact my offline listening didn't contributing to their monthly streaming numbers an artist needed to stay relevant and on label, even though I'd bought the dang album. But you can't allow yourself to obsess over showing support like that or it's a slippery slope into the wasteful "fan labour" of K-idol stans leaivng their laptop streaming music videos 24/7 while they sleep, and the consequent creep on that side of pop to shorter and shorter lengths of songs to rack up the maximum streams per day...
*and I'm not that old - young millenial coming up in an era where iTunes was the norm and everyone bought music with their pocket money (while torrenting and ripping CDs from the library on the side). Now I have a lot of friends who simply won't listen to music that's not on Spotify and would be confused about what to do with a free download.
"But, in a cruel irony, the more my fans consciously choose to support me in real life versus streaming, the more invisible I become in the industry’s eyes."
I think about this all the time, as I see younger* fans competing over which of their faves has the most Spotify streams. I've caught myself feeling *guilty* for the fact my offline listening didn't contributing to their monthly streaming numbers an artist needed to stay relevant and on label, even though I'd bought the dang album. But you can't allow yourself to obsess over showing support like that or it's a slippery slope into the wasteful "fan labour" of K-idol stans leaivng their laptop streaming music videos 24/7 while they sleep, and the consequent creep on that side of pop to shorter and shorter lengths of songs to rack up the maximum streams per day...
*and I'm not that old - young millenial coming up in an era where iTunes was the norm and everyone bought music with their pocket money (while torrenting and ripping CDs from the library on the side). Now I have a lot of friends who simply won't listen to music that's not on Spotify and would be confused about what to do with a free download.
"But, in a cruel irony, the more my fans consciously choose to support me in real life versus streaming, the more invisible I become in the industry’s eyes."
I think about this all the time, as I see younger* fans competing over which of their faves has the most Spotify streams. I've caught myself feeling *guilty* for the fact my offline listening didn't contributing to their monthly streaming numbers an artist needed to stay relevant and on label, even though I'd bought the dang album. But you can't allow yourself to obsess over showing support like that or it's a slippery slope into the wasteful "fan labour" of K-idol stans leaivng their laptop streaming music videos 24/7 while they sleep, and the consequent creep on that side of pop to shorter and shorter lengths of songs to rack up the maximum streams per day...
*and I'm not that old - young millenial coming up in an era where iTunes was the norm and everyone bought music with their pocket money (while torrenting and ripping CDs from the library on the side). Now I have a lot of friends who simply won't listen to music that's not on Spotify and would be confused about what to do with a free download.
"But, in a cruel irony, the more my fans consciously choose to support me in real life versus streaming, the more invisible I become in the industry’s eyes."
I think about this all the time, as I see younger* fans competing over which of their faves has the most Spotify streams. I've caught myself feeling *guilty* for the fact my offline listening didn't contributing to their monthly streaming numbers an artist needed to stay relevant and on label, even though I'd bought the dang album. But you can't allow yourself to obsess over showing support like that or it's a slippery slope into the wasteful "fan labour" of K-idol stans leaivng their laptop streaming music videos 24/7 while they sleep, and the consequent creep on that side of pop to shorter and shorter lengths of songs to rack up the maximum streams per day...
*and I'm not that old - young millenial coming up in an era where iTunes was the norm and everyone bought music with their pocket money (while torrenting and ripping CDs from the library on the side). Now I have a lot of friends who simply won't listen to music that's not on Spotify and would be confused about what to do with a free download.
"But, in a cruel irony, the more my fans consciously choose to support me in real life versus streaming, the more invisible I become in the industry’s eyes."
I think about this all the time, as I see younger* fans competing over which of their faves has the most Spotify streams. I've caught myself feeling *guilty* for the fact my offline listening didn't contributing to their monthly streaming numbers an artist needed to stay relevant and on label, even though I'd bought the dang album. But you can't allow yourself to obsess over showing support like that or it's a slippery slope into the wasteful "fan labour" of K-idol stans leaivng their laptop streaming music videos 24/7 while they sleep, and the consequent creep on that side of pop to shorter and shorter lengths of songs to rack up the maximum streams per day...
*and I'm not that old - young millenial coming up in an era where iTunes was the norm and everyone bought music with their pocket money (while torrenting and ripping CDs from the library on the side). Now I have a lot of friends who simply won't listen to music that's not on Spotify and would be confused about what to do with a free download.
"But, in a cruel irony, the more my fans consciously choose to support me in real life versus streaming, the more invisible I become in the industry’s eyes."
I think about this all the time, as I see younger* fans competing over which of their faves has the most Spotify streams. I've caught myself feeling *guilty* for the fact my offline listening didn't contributing to their monthly streaming numbers an artist needed to stay relevant and on label, even though I'd bought the dang album. But you can't allow yourself to obsess over showing support like that or it's a slippery slope into the wasteful "fan labour" of K-idol stans leaivng their laptop streaming music videos 24/7 while they sleep, and the consequent creep on that side of pop to shorter and shorter lengths of songs to rack up the maximum streams per day...
*and I'm not that old - young millenial coming up in an era where iTunes was the norm and everyone bought music with their pocket money (while torrenting and ripping CDs from the library on the side). Now I have a lot of friends who simply won't listen to music that's not on Spotify and would be confused about what to do with a free download.
Loved your text. Truly.
But leaving Spotify is an act of artistic rebellion — a way to bring meaning to your own life path.
I feel I can no longer use it without being overwhelmed by the thought that I'm just supplying an illegal and sorrowful “music-killer” scheme.
Cheers from Brazil.
Hi! Thanks for reading. So, I understand leaving Spotify as an act of artistic rebellion. BUT, I don’t understand how it’s even an option as an artist. I don’t use it as a listener, but as an artist, I have never heard of a distribution deal that leaves Spotify out of the equation. Nor have I heard of a record deal contract that has worldwide distribution without including Spotify. Unless you’re a fully DIY artist or on Taylor Swift level, you don’t get to choose to opt out of Spotify. It sucks but that’s where we are right now in the world. Another reason why the middle class musician is going extinct.
This is the same wrongthink the social media echo chambers use to convince people they can't delete their FaceSpace accounts because "if you're not on [platform] you don't exist!" It's completely false.
Quitting Spotify isn't about "helping indie musicians" - but it doesn't hurt them either. That's like saying "Quitting Amazon Prime won't help small retailers!" It's a logical fallacy.
Don't give money to shitty platforms that prioritize greed over people. The end.
This is exactly right. Sure, me (as in just me) quitting Spotify is not going to help any Indie artists. Much...
It will however help a tiny itty little bit.
Me and all my friends? A little more.
"You kind of have to be on Spotify" is the mantra of the day, but ask yourself this: Do we really? Is it actually helping?
Considering that it's already pretty abysmal being an Indie artist on Spotify, can it really get any worse?
My prediction is that any small artist withdrawing their music from Spotify will lose no money and no potential for promotion.
In order for a new music business to rise from the ashes, we first need to burn the current one to the ground.
"In order for a new music business to rise from the ashes, we first need to burn the current one to the ground."
I am all-in for that - it's like a bloody Hydra, if you don't burn the stumps, two more heads rise in place of the old one.
THANK YOU for putting so beautifully into words what I have struggled with for years.
I've long believed that Spotify had burst the 'music fan' bubble and shown that most people actually just want background noise, and active music fans are a smaller group than we realised but I really liked your point that Spotify's passive programming is also impacting the active music fans that try to engage with it - like it's impossible to escape the passivity.
I spend a lot of time trying to walk musicians down the path of playing the industry / streaming game to show that even if they 'sell-out' and embrace the new normal AND they get lucky and blow up, they'll be stuck in the system that's more of a hamster wheel than a canvas.
It's more important than ever to define your own success and path as an artist. Once you're clear on what you value and where you want to go, you can correctly judge the offers, opportunities and Faustian bargains that come your way. If artists don't set their own agenda, someone (Spotify, A&R) will be setting it for you.
I agree with all you wrote. The thing is easily put this way: if you wanna play their game, you have to follow their rules. They, being the music industry major players. Could it be the problem musicians aiming to instant recognition? I believe the music we make, if it has “quality”, will find its way to the people that will enjoy it. It will take time, but it will happen.
Spotify is a niche. If you’re there, few people will know or find you there. If you’re not, well, some people will understand why…
I interviewed a band today and we got around to talking about Spotify and one of the guys said "I hold two thoughts. Spotify is fucking us while also helping us." Because people discover them on Spotify and then buy a ticket to their show and then buy a t-shirt or record that night.
I looked at Spotify's breakdown of the streams we've seen on our christmas-song. Funnily enough we had our highest amount of streams on January 21st, almost 1 month after we were done with christmas.
A total of 2028 streams, with a solid peak of 713 streams on said January 21st. Seems legit...