This was a perfect read illuminating the protections that men receive while women languish as greedy wenches when coming forward. Tragically, no one was willing to believe Cassie until the hotel video was released. You're right, men in music are beyond reproach in a way that other industries are not. This has to change. I love the clarity and candor of this timely piece. Think it should be published with a major outlet.
Thank you for reading and thanks for bringing up Cassie --yet another grim example of how powerful men in the industry feel protected enough to deny, deflect, and manipulate the narrative. Terrible to see how she was discredited for so long. To the point where Combs thought he could shamelessly spin his lies and denials. That confidence and entitlement came from years of being shielded by press/fans/industry. And it almost worked. PS: I have a song called EMDR ATM. Feel free to play it in your closet. XX
It's beyond comprehension and sickening that he could create this much atrociousness for this long. Looking forward to see all the dominos that fall from this one... Happy to read quality work anytime. I've been sleeping on EMDR in My Closet for too long. This is my sign :)
The worst thing about the "boys club" is how women get tricked into joining it. They manipulate you with not-like-other-girls-ism, microdose you on internalized misogyny, and use your approval, your inclusion, as evidence that what they do can't possibly be that bad, otherwise why would we have this token girl on on our side? Ladies, don't be the human shield. It's not flattering, it's using.
You mentioned Courtney Love at the top of the article. I feel like she’s called out a few of these types of men in her time and she’s been written off as “crazy” each time. She may be crazy, I have no idea, but it’s curious that she usually ends up being right about what she says. And then of course you mentioned Evan Rachel Wood, whose story broke my heart. Which begs the question - how famous do you have to be to *successfully* call these guys out?? Or does it even matter? Sigh.
As a lawyer (and also just as a regular person) I also have to laugh at the ex’s failed lawsuit. It’s not defamation if it’s opinion or fact, ffs! The amount of people who throw around a defamation claim without thinking is kinda mind boggling. Entertainment lawyers must make a killing off overly sensitive men. Sigh (again).
Until next week, and as always, take care of yourself!!
My ex didn't understand the definition of defamation. He thought it was synonymous with disparagement. But, in the end it was just a tactic to try to bully me into an NDA. He knew I couldn't afford a lawsuit, so I think he was hoping I'd settle before it went to court. That's why his lawyer offered to drop the case in exchange for me signing a contract of silence. Which, as you know, I didn't do. This is a VERY COMMONLY used tactic by people in positions of power. I know many women who have been silenced because their abusers strategically used the court system against them. It's just too expensive to fight famous dude who have top lawyers on retainer.
I think you have to be Taylor Swift type famous and most of your fanbase has to be a younger demographic, and then perhaps you can call out men and not be written off as crazy. The fans are the key, I think. Because if fans were to really rally behind the women, the industry and media would have to follow, since the fans are the money. But it's a catch 22 because a lot of fans aren't even aware of a lot of the bad behavior because media and industry have kept quiet about it.
I had no idea about Homme and Tyler. I knew Kiedis was a creep but not to the extent of bragging about it in his book. And he was allowed to represent the USA at the Olympics closing ceremony!
Iggy Pop too, as much as I love his music and persona, and he comes across as a decent guy, has a *lot* of songs about creepy Lolita shit. I suspect there's going to be a reckoning when he dies.
Fantastic piece Carre - spot on as well a being well thought out, erudite and balanced.
You are right, and it’s so hard to do - to mistake your worship / fandom as “knowing” someone - it’s easy to do with (ghost written) autobiographies, internet stories, pre internet fanzines, print articles (edited) speech / interview content etc etc - we are tempted to feel we “know” the person when all we are really getting is a carefully manicured image. Thats why grass roots rock still matters - talking to people like yourself and all other cool artists / musicians at this level allows us to interface and “get to know” the artist better (I suppose conversely they could always get mega rich and turn into a-holes later…)
Even back to the 50’s the “rebel” bad boy (no irony lost on me with the record label of the same names owner) Marlon Brando, Elvis - idolised for being pretty cool but their treatment of others / women was not called out but even enabled.
In the 60’s - Jim Morrison, the 70’s - Sid Vicious - the 80’s - Axl Rose, the 90’s etc etc - it seems the bad boy image is marketed and lapped up by (predominantly male) fans who aspire to be
“Just like” their idols - I do believe it’s changing and will take these old dinosaurs to die then we shall see a change. Rock generally has become more diverse with attitudes less tolerant of shit behaviour - god bless the younger generations - they won’t stand for this shit!
Lastly I wonder how this new era can be ushered in quicker? So disappointing that you had to edit and were refused publication of this piece - we need to start showing up and talking about this.
After the brutal rape and murder of Mia Zapata (took the police decades to charge the murderer) a bunch of Seattle artists got together to form Home Alive which was earnest, righteously pissed off and started to raise the issue of violence towards women and girls at gigs. Here in the UK I’m proud to support White Ribbon Day which raises awareness of and tries to combat violence against Women and Girls but we need to do more - I honestly believe men need to do more - we need to call out idolatry of rockstars with poor behaviour and not let record companies and magazines pass this off as a “bad day” “only human” or somehow whitewash it - I don’t know how, I only know we should and Carre - this feels like the beginning ……… thank you
“I’m too old for this shit” was a line that always stood out to me on your record. Someone younger than the people she was around, but more mature and ready to move past it. I feel like “I’m too old for this shit” is more Rock n Roll in 2024 than hitting your bandmates on stage and trying to hook up with teenagers. “I’m too old for this shit” exudes the kind of cool self confidence that rock was supposed to actually be about. The rest of us wanting to be like them, but here is is the real star and she doesn’t give a SHIT. Rebellion against the institution, which Rock n Roll itself has now become, is best stated now by a young woman in her prime, surrounded by sad men, just flatly stating that she doesn’t give a fuck about any of it. Thats something new. People say that “rock” is dead, like that spirit of rebellion could ever die, but I don’t think it is. I think they just don’t recognize it when they hear it and see it now; because they are still looking for the old form it took, but it’s not those guys anymore. It’s you and so many others.
Really great perspective. Thank you for sharing this with us. I wish we lived in a time where more journalists would have the courage and support to elevate stories like yours. I truly believe one day we will.
Thank you. I wasn't sure if this essay was going to land with people, because I struggle at times to articulate. Especially when it comes to expressing opinions and thoughts on subjects that are very emotionally loaded. But your comment confirmed that I made my point clearly. Thanks for getting it. Thanks for the support and kindness. Thanks for your thoughtful feedback. XX
Thank you for writing this. I’ve been a musician both solo and in bands for 14 years and I hit a wall every few years (months, even) when I find out about yet another favorite male musician is an asshole/abuser/etc. I spent a lot of my younger years thinking that I was networking in the industry, but inevitably time and time again I would realize these guys were looking at me as a piece of ass. It’s absolutely soul crushing. I have overhauled playlist after playlist trying to remove the disgusting feeling after meeting your heroes and they try to sleep with you or your teenage friend, or finding out they abuse their spouse, etc. Time and time again. It’s like a minefield of trying not to feel dehumanized and sexualized when I just want to listen to music I enjoyed growing up. I don’t expect every musician to be a perfect person, but the level at which they are excused and at which this behavior is normalized is deeply upsetting.
I probably would be able to enjoy listening to music if I had never started pursuing music as a career. If I had never been exposed to the business side of things and remained ignorant to the horrible behavior, etc, etc. So much of my writing has been about my conflicted feelings towards music, my love/hate relationship with it, and how music and the music industry are now one for me. I can't see one without the other. Which is really unfortunate.
It’s funny how you mentioned that the major publications were asking you to “edit” your thoughts on such a well-articulated and purely honest piece. (Great job on this by the way)! However, this isn’t scandalous or much of an earth-shattering tell-all. On the contrary, it’s a very well-penned and accurate observation from a unique vantage point, with a healthy dose of humanity and humility. I’m assuming the writers, and possibly even editors, of these “major publications” are just as fearful of the slimebag lawyers and their likely influence over advertisers. Gotta love the corporate machine! And yes, that’s only my speculation and maybe I’m giving them too much credit. At any rate, this was a great read and thank you for the continual integrity.
Thanks for reading. I made sure to only cite examples that are already "public knowledge" so that nothing seemed salacious or scandalous. But, these truths have been softened, hidden, and/or ignored forever. So, it's no surprise that a music publication wouldn't want to give attention to a piece that exposes them as a big part of the problem.
The DIY punk scene sort of has an anti-rockstar stance with no stages. The whole idea is sort of ludicrous as they are average dipshits like the rest of us, it's just that some corporate "suit" thought that they could be easily marketed to the masses of sheep.
P.S. Foo Fighters have sucked way before the scandal.
Great job carre @amandadecadenet referred me to this essay . I’ve been professional musician since 1985( hey ! 100 dollars a gig in faith no more makes me professional !)but my cynicism is so high . I too went on tour w NIN. Had a tour affair w reznor as people know . But his extracurricular and that of his crew is what blew my mind. Why ! Why ? When he’s joking about a girl that “ did “ the band and crew bus , laughing that they left her at a truck stop in the middle of nowhere am I looking back at who I was then , am I letting him in my bed and normalizing this ? Why did I get “ fired “ while HEADLINING . Lollapalooza for trying to fire a gross bus driving trading bjs for passes ? Told I had to apologize to “ bud “ ?( it was a short firing . Not like they can make much money without the front woman of the headliner) but it was SURREAL. Bud didn’t even get fired and remained my crews one of the bus drivers for my band . I just don’t see this ever coming. Safety wise for girls . Samantha Maloney who has drummed with me started “ the punk rock therapist “ and has an insanely powerful lawyer backing her up - Ann olivarus obe - they’ve sued Kim Fowleys estate - axl rose - you can look her up. She’s dedicating her life to this . And easy to find . Anyway I dunno . 🤷♀️ I just don’t see it changing . But you youngsters ? Maybe you have hope . And I’d be pleased at punch if your activism did do something about it . It’s too internalized in me and I’m too old to really see the light at the end of the tunnel . But thank you . God speed . Courtney . Xzzxxx
I had no clue about the whole Josh Homme vs. Brody Dalle situation. Now it makes sense why she's MIA. I’m sure his fanbase rallied behind him too. And to think she hasn’t had access to her kids in years? That’s heartbreaking.
Thank you for shedding light on this. Some of it was familiar, but I’ve never seen it framed the way you have. Your perspective deserves a wider audience—I really hope a major publication picks this up because more people need to hear it. I also wish more women in rock would come forward about these issues. I believe there's strength in numbers and more people now than ever who want to hear from women like you.
Thank you. To be fair, a lot of women don't want to publicly talk about this stuff because they don't want to be Amber Heard'ed or written off as a drama queen or pot-stirrer. Or, as one commenter called me, a "jealous, petty, child" lol. It's too risky to speak up. Cool girls can't be party poopers, etc, etc. Also, trolls can be very, very vicious and make your personal/professional life a nightmare.
Hi Carré. Wonderfully written and emotional piece as usual. X
I’m starting to wonder if unwavering support of dickhead rockstars is a generational thing?
My youngest daughter recently told me of a band she follows (she bought a ton of merch and has seen them 5 times in 2 years)
They had millions of followers mainly due to them being “YouTube celebrities”.
Recently the lead singer was exposed as an abuser and the “fandom” dumped them overnight (my daughter included). They have been left with a handful of fans are now playing much smaller venues.
My take is with social media echo chambers the youth of today won’t tolerate where maybe we would? X
I 100% agree. I totally believe it's a generational thing. People my age hate when I give any credit to GenZ or Alpha. But, I truly believe they are righting the ship by not being impressed by shitty behavior. Hearing about your daughter and other fans standing by the accuser vs the abuser, is HUGE. That's the opposite of what I've experienced. I think part of why rock is losing popularity is because younger listeners aren't enamored with the "drugs, sex, rocknroll" cliché that men in rock represent. People worry that, as a result, rock will become too "safe." But the abuse and mistreatment of people isn't "rebellious" or what makes rocknroll cool. My prediction is that the rockstar as we know him will go extinct with GenX. I'm just curious to see how posterity will end up defining the genre.
So very much on point. In recent years, I have been re-evaluating my "fandom" of problematic male artists & musicians and in a way been able to separate the art from the artist (& their behavior) but still makes me feel icky at times. Take MM for example. When Rachel Evan Wood's accusations came to light, I was not surprised at all and knew she spoke truths. Being in South Florida and in the same scene & circles Manson was in when they were just a local band & consequently blew up, it was well-known even back then that he was problematic and not a good person.
I guess what I am trying to say is that I agree 100% with you and all you're saying here in this latest & as always, very awesome post. Hero worship is a slippery slope nowadays and you have to steel yourself oftentimes that your heroes will let you down and disappoint you.
Seems like it was well known about MM everywhere. I was briefly part of the music biz in my 20's and nobody had anything good to say about MM. He got away with a lot, as many of them do.
"My response: how old are you? Did you happen to come of age in the 80's and idolize Mötley Crüe as a teenager?'
Ummm yes. I read a biography about Motley Crue (pre The Dirt) when I was ten years old and became absolutely obsessed by them. (They became the first band I saw live, at 14, as well.) Anyway, I can't tell you how much reading that scummy bio and internalising the band and that genre's attitudes towards women had a negative impact on my life and behaviour as a young woman. So much internalised misogyny! It's like I groomed myself via a book I bought from a WH Smiths in the high street.
Brilliant article which chimes and resonates so appositely… I’m really hoping the age of creating these ‘stars’ is dead… most of the men noted above came to the fore before 2000 perhaps at a time when record companies et al humoured and encouraged such vices. My thoughts are:
a) I don’t think the industry is like that any longer - it’s too disparate, too subgenred
b) the rise of social media means toxic behaviour can be more ready exposed
c) the biggest stars are now pop rather than rock (Swift, Sheeran etc) where female stars shine brighter than male
d) Euro-American culture which created most of these beasts is now primed and exposing them (Al-Fayed in the UK, for eg) and any toxic legacies
e) rocks future is not with ageing white males (says a white 58yo male!!)… it’s with anyone other than that!
Now subscribed to you and look forward to reading more 🙏🙏🙏
if anyone gives you shit for this I will fight them
If only you could guard my DMs haha
personally I employ liberal use of the block button and recommend the same! it's fun
They’ve already started in the comments :/
as expected haha
I'm trying to pick them off one my one. how fucking dare they
♥️
“Bad Bot.” Is that a Freudian slip? Because right now you look like a bad bot. A really boring (and stupid) bad bot.
I see the only person you are subscribed to is carré. are you a fan boy or a stalker?
I think he’s just a misogynistic boomer. That’s the vibe I’m getting. 😂
aren't they all
He likely created a lame burner account to stalk her.
gross, even worse
🖕🖕
This was a perfect read illuminating the protections that men receive while women languish as greedy wenches when coming forward. Tragically, no one was willing to believe Cassie until the hotel video was released. You're right, men in music are beyond reproach in a way that other industries are not. This has to change. I love the clarity and candor of this timely piece. Think it should be published with a major outlet.
Thank you for reading and thanks for bringing up Cassie --yet another grim example of how powerful men in the industry feel protected enough to deny, deflect, and manipulate the narrative. Terrible to see how she was discredited for so long. To the point where Combs thought he could shamelessly spin his lies and denials. That confidence and entitlement came from years of being shielded by press/fans/industry. And it almost worked. PS: I have a song called EMDR ATM. Feel free to play it in your closet. XX
It's beyond comprehension and sickening that he could create this much atrociousness for this long. Looking forward to see all the dominos that fall from this one... Happy to read quality work anytime. I've been sleeping on EMDR in My Closet for too long. This is my sign :)
The worst thing about the "boys club" is how women get tricked into joining it. They manipulate you with not-like-other-girls-ism, microdose you on internalized misogyny, and use your approval, your inclusion, as evidence that what they do can't possibly be that bad, otherwise why would we have this token girl on on our side? Ladies, don't be the human shield. It's not flattering, it's using.
Well, as always, your writing is superb.
You mentioned Courtney Love at the top of the article. I feel like she’s called out a few of these types of men in her time and she’s been written off as “crazy” each time. She may be crazy, I have no idea, but it’s curious that she usually ends up being right about what she says. And then of course you mentioned Evan Rachel Wood, whose story broke my heart. Which begs the question - how famous do you have to be to *successfully* call these guys out?? Or does it even matter? Sigh.
As a lawyer (and also just as a regular person) I also have to laugh at the ex’s failed lawsuit. It’s not defamation if it’s opinion or fact, ffs! The amount of people who throw around a defamation claim without thinking is kinda mind boggling. Entertainment lawyers must make a killing off overly sensitive men. Sigh (again).
Until next week, and as always, take care of yourself!!
My ex didn't understand the definition of defamation. He thought it was synonymous with disparagement. But, in the end it was just a tactic to try to bully me into an NDA. He knew I couldn't afford a lawsuit, so I think he was hoping I'd settle before it went to court. That's why his lawyer offered to drop the case in exchange for me signing a contract of silence. Which, as you know, I didn't do. This is a VERY COMMONLY used tactic by people in positions of power. I know many women who have been silenced because their abusers strategically used the court system against them. It's just too expensive to fight famous dude who have top lawyers on retainer.
I think you have to be Taylor Swift type famous and most of your fanbase has to be a younger demographic, and then perhaps you can call out men and not be written off as crazy. The fans are the key, I think. Because if fans were to really rally behind the women, the industry and media would have to follow, since the fans are the money. But it's a catch 22 because a lot of fans aren't even aware of a lot of the bad behavior because media and industry have kept quiet about it.
I had no idea about Homme and Tyler. I knew Kiedis was a creep but not to the extent of bragging about it in his book. And he was allowed to represent the USA at the Olympics closing ceremony!
Iggy Pop too, as much as I love his music and persona, and he comes across as a decent guy, has a *lot* of songs about creepy Lolita shit. I suspect there's going to be a reckoning when he dies.
Fantastic piece Carre - spot on as well a being well thought out, erudite and balanced.
You are right, and it’s so hard to do - to mistake your worship / fandom as “knowing” someone - it’s easy to do with (ghost written) autobiographies, internet stories, pre internet fanzines, print articles (edited) speech / interview content etc etc - we are tempted to feel we “know” the person when all we are really getting is a carefully manicured image. Thats why grass roots rock still matters - talking to people like yourself and all other cool artists / musicians at this level allows us to interface and “get to know” the artist better (I suppose conversely they could always get mega rich and turn into a-holes later…)
Even back to the 50’s the “rebel” bad boy (no irony lost on me with the record label of the same names owner) Marlon Brando, Elvis - idolised for being pretty cool but their treatment of others / women was not called out but even enabled.
In the 60’s - Jim Morrison, the 70’s - Sid Vicious - the 80’s - Axl Rose, the 90’s etc etc - it seems the bad boy image is marketed and lapped up by (predominantly male) fans who aspire to be
“Just like” their idols - I do believe it’s changing and will take these old dinosaurs to die then we shall see a change. Rock generally has become more diverse with attitudes less tolerant of shit behaviour - god bless the younger generations - they won’t stand for this shit!
Lastly I wonder how this new era can be ushered in quicker? So disappointing that you had to edit and were refused publication of this piece - we need to start showing up and talking about this.
After the brutal rape and murder of Mia Zapata (took the police decades to charge the murderer) a bunch of Seattle artists got together to form Home Alive which was earnest, righteously pissed off and started to raise the issue of violence towards women and girls at gigs. Here in the UK I’m proud to support White Ribbon Day which raises awareness of and tries to combat violence against Women and Girls but we need to do more - I honestly believe men need to do more - we need to call out idolatry of rockstars with poor behaviour and not let record companies and magazines pass this off as a “bad day” “only human” or somehow whitewash it - I don’t know how, I only know we should and Carre - this feels like the beginning ……… thank you
Great article!
“I’m too old for this shit” was a line that always stood out to me on your record. Someone younger than the people she was around, but more mature and ready to move past it. I feel like “I’m too old for this shit” is more Rock n Roll in 2024 than hitting your bandmates on stage and trying to hook up with teenagers. “I’m too old for this shit” exudes the kind of cool self confidence that rock was supposed to actually be about. The rest of us wanting to be like them, but here is is the real star and she doesn’t give a SHIT. Rebellion against the institution, which Rock n Roll itself has now become, is best stated now by a young woman in her prime, surrounded by sad men, just flatly stating that she doesn’t give a fuck about any of it. Thats something new. People say that “rock” is dead, like that spirit of rebellion could ever die, but I don’t think it is. I think they just don’t recognize it when they hear it and see it now; because they are still looking for the old form it took, but it’s not those guys anymore. It’s you and so many others.
Really great perspective. Thank you for sharing this with us. I wish we lived in a time where more journalists would have the courage and support to elevate stories like yours. I truly believe one day we will.
Thank you. I wasn't sure if this essay was going to land with people, because I struggle at times to articulate. Especially when it comes to expressing opinions and thoughts on subjects that are very emotionally loaded. But your comment confirmed that I made my point clearly. Thanks for getting it. Thanks for the support and kindness. Thanks for your thoughtful feedback. XX
well said
Thank you for writing this. I’ve been a musician both solo and in bands for 14 years and I hit a wall every few years (months, even) when I find out about yet another favorite male musician is an asshole/abuser/etc. I spent a lot of my younger years thinking that I was networking in the industry, but inevitably time and time again I would realize these guys were looking at me as a piece of ass. It’s absolutely soul crushing. I have overhauled playlist after playlist trying to remove the disgusting feeling after meeting your heroes and they try to sleep with you or your teenage friend, or finding out they abuse their spouse, etc. Time and time again. It’s like a minefield of trying not to feel dehumanized and sexualized when I just want to listen to music I enjoyed growing up. I don’t expect every musician to be a perfect person, but the level at which they are excused and at which this behavior is normalized is deeply upsetting.
I probably would be able to enjoy listening to music if I had never started pursuing music as a career. If I had never been exposed to the business side of things and remained ignorant to the horrible behavior, etc, etc. So much of my writing has been about my conflicted feelings towards music, my love/hate relationship with it, and how music and the music industry are now one for me. I can't see one without the other. Which is really unfortunate.
Well said.
It’s funny how you mentioned that the major publications were asking you to “edit” your thoughts on such a well-articulated and purely honest piece. (Great job on this by the way)! However, this isn’t scandalous or much of an earth-shattering tell-all. On the contrary, it’s a very well-penned and accurate observation from a unique vantage point, with a healthy dose of humanity and humility. I’m assuming the writers, and possibly even editors, of these “major publications” are just as fearful of the slimebag lawyers and their likely influence over advertisers. Gotta love the corporate machine! And yes, that’s only my speculation and maybe I’m giving them too much credit. At any rate, this was a great read and thank you for the continual integrity.
Thanks for reading. I made sure to only cite examples that are already "public knowledge" so that nothing seemed salacious or scandalous. But, these truths have been softened, hidden, and/or ignored forever. So, it's no surprise that a music publication wouldn't want to give attention to a piece that exposes them as a big part of the problem.
Time to take this conversation to restaurants and chefs, too. 🤘
agreed
The DIY punk scene sort of has an anti-rockstar stance with no stages. The whole idea is sort of ludicrous as they are average dipshits like the rest of us, it's just that some corporate "suit" thought that they could be easily marketed to the masses of sheep.
P.S. Foo Fighters have sucked way before the scandal.
Great job carre @amandadecadenet referred me to this essay . I’ve been professional musician since 1985( hey ! 100 dollars a gig in faith no more makes me professional !)but my cynicism is so high . I too went on tour w NIN. Had a tour affair w reznor as people know . But his extracurricular and that of his crew is what blew my mind. Why ! Why ? When he’s joking about a girl that “ did “ the band and crew bus , laughing that they left her at a truck stop in the middle of nowhere am I looking back at who I was then , am I letting him in my bed and normalizing this ? Why did I get “ fired “ while HEADLINING . Lollapalooza for trying to fire a gross bus driving trading bjs for passes ? Told I had to apologize to “ bud “ ?( it was a short firing . Not like they can make much money without the front woman of the headliner) but it was SURREAL. Bud didn’t even get fired and remained my crews one of the bus drivers for my band . I just don’t see this ever coming. Safety wise for girls . Samantha Maloney who has drummed with me started “ the punk rock therapist “ and has an insanely powerful lawyer backing her up - Ann olivarus obe - they’ve sued Kim Fowleys estate - axl rose - you can look her up. She’s dedicating her life to this . And easy to find . Anyway I dunno . 🤷♀️ I just don’t see it changing . But you youngsters ? Maybe you have hope . And I’d be pleased at punch if your activism did do something about it . It’s too internalized in me and I’m too old to really see the light at the end of the tunnel . But thank you . God speed . Courtney . Xzzxxx
I had no clue about the whole Josh Homme vs. Brody Dalle situation. Now it makes sense why she's MIA. I’m sure his fanbase rallied behind him too. And to think she hasn’t had access to her kids in years? That’s heartbreaking.
Thank you for shedding light on this. Some of it was familiar, but I’ve never seen it framed the way you have. Your perspective deserves a wider audience—I really hope a major publication picks this up because more people need to hear it. I also wish more women in rock would come forward about these issues. I believe there's strength in numbers and more people now than ever who want to hear from women like you.
Thank you. To be fair, a lot of women don't want to publicly talk about this stuff because they don't want to be Amber Heard'ed or written off as a drama queen or pot-stirrer. Or, as one commenter called me, a "jealous, petty, child" lol. It's too risky to speak up. Cool girls can't be party poopers, etc, etc. Also, trolls can be very, very vicious and make your personal/professional life a nightmare.
It's especially disquieting because Homme (like Dave Grohl) comes across like a decent guy, not a rockstar 'bad boy'.
Hi Carré. Wonderfully written and emotional piece as usual. X
I’m starting to wonder if unwavering support of dickhead rockstars is a generational thing?
My youngest daughter recently told me of a band she follows (she bought a ton of merch and has seen them 5 times in 2 years)
They had millions of followers mainly due to them being “YouTube celebrities”.
Recently the lead singer was exposed as an abuser and the “fandom” dumped them overnight (my daughter included). They have been left with a handful of fans are now playing much smaller venues.
My take is with social media echo chambers the youth of today won’t tolerate where maybe we would? X
I 100% agree. I totally believe it's a generational thing. People my age hate when I give any credit to GenZ or Alpha. But, I truly believe they are righting the ship by not being impressed by shitty behavior. Hearing about your daughter and other fans standing by the accuser vs the abuser, is HUGE. That's the opposite of what I've experienced. I think part of why rock is losing popularity is because younger listeners aren't enamored with the "drugs, sex, rocknroll" cliché that men in rock represent. People worry that, as a result, rock will become too "safe." But the abuse and mistreatment of people isn't "rebellious" or what makes rocknroll cool. My prediction is that the rockstar as we know him will go extinct with GenX. I'm just curious to see how posterity will end up defining the genre.
Time will tell I suppose. Daisy was heartbroken when his abuse was revealed…but her anger was stronger than her “grief”.
Don’t put your life in the hands of a rock and roll band! X
I hope the example you cite won’t be an isolated one going forward. Agreed that this is a great piece by Carré.
So very much on point. In recent years, I have been re-evaluating my "fandom" of problematic male artists & musicians and in a way been able to separate the art from the artist (& their behavior) but still makes me feel icky at times. Take MM for example. When Rachel Evan Wood's accusations came to light, I was not surprised at all and knew she spoke truths. Being in South Florida and in the same scene & circles Manson was in when they were just a local band & consequently blew up, it was well-known even back then that he was problematic and not a good person.
I guess what I am trying to say is that I agree 100% with you and all you're saying here in this latest & as always, very awesome post. Hero worship is a slippery slope nowadays and you have to steel yourself oftentimes that your heroes will let you down and disappoint you.
Seems like it was well known about MM everywhere. I was briefly part of the music biz in my 20's and nobody had anything good to say about MM. He got away with a lot, as many of them do.
"My response: how old are you? Did you happen to come of age in the 80's and idolize Mötley Crüe as a teenager?'
Ummm yes. I read a biography about Motley Crue (pre The Dirt) when I was ten years old and became absolutely obsessed by them. (They became the first band I saw live, at 14, as well.) Anyway, I can't tell you how much reading that scummy bio and internalising the band and that genre's attitudes towards women had a negative impact on my life and behaviour as a young woman. So much internalised misogyny! It's like I groomed myself via a book I bought from a WH Smiths in the high street.
Brilliant article which chimes and resonates so appositely… I’m really hoping the age of creating these ‘stars’ is dead… most of the men noted above came to the fore before 2000 perhaps at a time when record companies et al humoured and encouraged such vices. My thoughts are:
a) I don’t think the industry is like that any longer - it’s too disparate, too subgenred
b) the rise of social media means toxic behaviour can be more ready exposed
c) the biggest stars are now pop rather than rock (Swift, Sheeran etc) where female stars shine brighter than male
d) Euro-American culture which created most of these beasts is now primed and exposing them (Al-Fayed in the UK, for eg) and any toxic legacies
e) rocks future is not with ageing white males (says a white 58yo male!!)… it’s with anyone other than that!
Now subscribed to you and look forward to reading more 🙏🙏🙏