As a photographer, As of 2008 ish, I was considered by every man band (the majority) that I showed an interest in to be a groupie. Also a cool girl to an extent; young and following them. It took me a while to realise that my career or access, or even credibility with those paying me, wasn’t as great as those around me because I didn’t go backstage.. (mess around with them). At the time, I took this to mean I was ugly, rather than because I rejected these things. They were cool, talented - they’d never be wrong. I’m definitely too old to be considered cool girl now, but my hope is that the rules grew up too. And I definitely wish I’d believed what I thought back then, misogynistic fucks. 😏
I don’t think anything’s changed sadly. Gatekeeping misogynistic motherfuckers are everywhere, sometimes poorly disguised as feminists and self-righteous about that 🫠
As time goes on, that I am noticing how a particular rock star has never been singled out as, "he's one of the good ones! A notable exception to the stereotype!" You owe no one any clearer words on that individual, but I am definitely taking note. Understanding the lines that may have to be walked for a variety of reasons, I'm definitely paying attention to the larger picture being painted.
As a longtime fan of a certain band that led me to discover your music, I have often had a perception that, "we know he was messed up back in the 90's, but hopefully he's one of the good ones now. Seems to have gotten his act together. Got sober. Has a happy family. Does high profile legit projects".
But I'm getting the impression that there was/is at the very least a willful negligence as a leader to allow a predatory culture like this to continue around his team, and at worst he's STILL not the person I imagine him to be in my weird idealized para-social fandom.
It's hard to come to terms with this, but I'd rather know the truth and have some illusions spoiled than help propagate a harmful culture.
Very much share your feelings on this and as aware as I've been over other equally big/bigger stars, I kind of always wanted to believe or hope he was one of the better ones - especially as you say once he got past that problematic early era...
Still, I suspect our hopes are just that. Not real, ideals of a construct in our heads based on what we want someone, who was important to us an artist, to be.
All this reminds me of an earlier conversation Carre started on this and the topic of separating the art from the artist. It's continued to be nearly impossible for me - where is the line of acceptability? It's sad that the same music that triggers nostaligic good feelings also now triggers thoughts of mistrust and sometimes disgust.
Wow, thank you for putting this out there so eloquently! I'd love to read more of your work, it sounds like you have incredible stories. I can relate, on a very deep level, to what you've written. I grew up in the punk scene and in local bands, and continued living in that space, involved in the music scene as a musician into my 30's. You've touched on something here that is extremely hard to articulate, pin down, and express. There is a unique experience of women in music, and although all women face these issues on some level I do think musicians have to walk a particularly delicate tightrope in terms of this stuff. Nice work! <3
It reminds me of something that happened to me in the late 90s, my cool girl peak. After a coworker raped me, he took me aside the day after and asked me if I was going to be cool about it. And just like many other girls I knew at the time, I had to be. I’m so glad things have changed. Let’s burn it all down.
Once again - eloquent yet tinged with sadness. I don’t think the Cool Girl is restricted only to musicians - so much of what you experienced and lived through I’ve seen in other walks of life - maybe not to the extremes you’ve witnessed but certainly it exists. I completely get where you’re coming from about burning people / bridges but I must say, if I was half as pissed off as you must be with some people and the way you’ve been treated I wouldn’t be able to restrain myself so huge respect that you have the self control (self worth?) to not take a torch to those fuckers!!! Quick question - how does one navigate the cool girl myth to place where they are older and actually pretty cool - I’m thinking Kim Gordon, Julianne Reagan, Kim Deal etc -actual, proper “cool” girls - I guess it’s about personal and professional integrity right? Which brings us back full circle to you!
Chasing "coolness" and acceptance is a futile & fruitless endeavor. Being "cool" was something that we've been conditioned to strive for from everything & everyone around us at a young age. The older you get comes the realization (hopefully) that being part of the cool crowd is vacuous and empty. It means nothing. It's not being your true self I'd say. it's a betrayal to your self-worth and self-acceptance.
In my later more mature & jaded age, the line (one of so many great ones) from Almost Famous rings true always: "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool."
As always...I think I may be rambling now. Bottom line: You may not be "cool", Carré, but you'll always be an awesome human being.
There are still Cool people that are Genuinely Cool in the good sense!Only an Authentically "Cool Woman" would eschew scandalous fame for good pasta! You Chrissy Hyde and a Nana's Bolognese. That's pretty F'ing cool!
Been there.. drugged, assaulted and nearly died. I grew up in an era where I wanted to be near the rock stars and be a groupie. I got a wake-up call and am lucky to be alive to tell my stories. Eventually I had a career in the music business and have been emotionally abused in that arena. I am a trauma survivor and a warrior because this business is brutal.
As a photographer, As of 2008 ish, I was considered by every man band (the majority) that I showed an interest in to be a groupie. Also a cool girl to an extent; young and following them. It took me a while to realise that my career or access, or even credibility with those paying me, wasn’t as great as those around me because I didn’t go backstage.. (mess around with them). At the time, I took this to mean I was ugly, rather than because I rejected these things. They were cool, talented - they’d never be wrong. I’m definitely too old to be considered cool girl now, but my hope is that the rules grew up too. And I definitely wish I’d believed what I thought back then, misogynistic fucks. 😏
I don’t think anything’s changed sadly. Gatekeeping misogynistic motherfuckers are everywhere, sometimes poorly disguised as feminists and self-righteous about that 🫠
you should see the face journey I had reading this
Omg ‘face journey’ is going in my daily vernacular a minute ago
Sobering.
As time goes on, that I am noticing how a particular rock star has never been singled out as, "he's one of the good ones! A notable exception to the stereotype!" You owe no one any clearer words on that individual, but I am definitely taking note. Understanding the lines that may have to be walked for a variety of reasons, I'm definitely paying attention to the larger picture being painted.
As a longtime fan of a certain band that led me to discover your music, I have often had a perception that, "we know he was messed up back in the 90's, but hopefully he's one of the good ones now. Seems to have gotten his act together. Got sober. Has a happy family. Does high profile legit projects".
But I'm getting the impression that there was/is at the very least a willful negligence as a leader to allow a predatory culture like this to continue around his team, and at worst he's STILL not the person I imagine him to be in my weird idealized para-social fandom.
It's hard to come to terms with this, but I'd rather know the truth and have some illusions spoiled than help propagate a harmful culture.
I respect your courage.
Very much share your feelings on this and as aware as I've been over other equally big/bigger stars, I kind of always wanted to believe or hope he was one of the better ones - especially as you say once he got past that problematic early era...
Still, I suspect our hopes are just that. Not real, ideals of a construct in our heads based on what we want someone, who was important to us an artist, to be.
All this reminds me of an earlier conversation Carre started on this and the topic of separating the art from the artist. It's continued to be nearly impossible for me - where is the line of acceptability? It's sad that the same music that triggers nostaligic good feelings also now triggers thoughts of mistrust and sometimes disgust.
Wow, thank you for putting this out there so eloquently! I'd love to read more of your work, it sounds like you have incredible stories. I can relate, on a very deep level, to what you've written. I grew up in the punk scene and in local bands, and continued living in that space, involved in the music scene as a musician into my 30's. You've touched on something here that is extremely hard to articulate, pin down, and express. There is a unique experience of women in music, and although all women face these issues on some level I do think musicians have to walk a particularly delicate tightrope in terms of this stuff. Nice work! <3
Thank you for this. So well said.
It reminds me of something that happened to me in the late 90s, my cool girl peak. After a coworker raped me, he took me aside the day after and asked me if I was going to be cool about it. And just like many other girls I knew at the time, I had to be. I’m so glad things have changed. Let’s burn it all down.
Once again - eloquent yet tinged with sadness. I don’t think the Cool Girl is restricted only to musicians - so much of what you experienced and lived through I’ve seen in other walks of life - maybe not to the extremes you’ve witnessed but certainly it exists. I completely get where you’re coming from about burning people / bridges but I must say, if I was half as pissed off as you must be with some people and the way you’ve been treated I wouldn’t be able to restrain myself so huge respect that you have the self control (self worth?) to not take a torch to those fuckers!!! Quick question - how does one navigate the cool girl myth to place where they are older and actually pretty cool - I’m thinking Kim Gordon, Julianne Reagan, Kim Deal etc -actual, proper “cool” girls - I guess it’s about personal and professional integrity right? Which brings us back full circle to you!
Chasing "coolness" and acceptance is a futile & fruitless endeavor. Being "cool" was something that we've been conditioned to strive for from everything & everyone around us at a young age. The older you get comes the realization (hopefully) that being part of the cool crowd is vacuous and empty. It means nothing. It's not being your true self I'd say. it's a betrayal to your self-worth and self-acceptance.
In my later more mature & jaded age, the line (one of so many great ones) from Almost Famous rings true always: "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool."
As always...I think I may be rambling now. Bottom line: You may not be "cool", Carré, but you'll always be an awesome human being.
Loved it. That's what sweating from your music, we can feel what you've been through and when.
Cool girl maybe a myth, but you're always yourself through someone's eyes.
When you realize you don't give a s**t and start being yourself, this is when you embrace your real self.
There are still Cool people that are Genuinely Cool in the good sense!Only an Authentically "Cool Woman" would eschew scandalous fame for good pasta! You Chrissy Hyde and a Nana's Bolognese. That's pretty F'ing cool!
Thank you for writing this.
Brava!
☮️❤️🎸
this is so good
“But she was erasing me more than she was protecting me.” Film industry. Same shit. This line is the one.
Love this, so resonant and relatable.
Never was cool......marched to the beat of a different drum and was immune to peer pressure......the master of my fate and the captain of my soul.
Today, I rather tend to like the man in the mirror.
Been there.. drugged, assaulted and nearly died. I grew up in an era where I wanted to be near the rock stars and be a groupie. I got a wake-up call and am lucky to be alive to tell my stories. Eventually I had a career in the music business and have been emotionally abused in that arena. I am a trauma survivor and a warrior because this business is brutal.